EOS R5 + Atomos Ninja V… a thorough analysis, and how to set-up

Since the release of the Canon EOS R and the endorsement Matti Haapoja did to the Atomos Ninja V, I’m trying to get the best results with this combo, but the lack of documentation from both, Canon and Atomos, the terrible job Atomos team did on their “setup guidewhich BTW, is completely misleading, adding to the confusion all the all mumbo jumbo and technical jargon Gerald Undone shared in his video encouraging to update the firmware and then with his video trying to explain but doing the exactly opposite, everyone got lost, specially me, as Casey from Camera Conspiracies said, maybe for Gerald this is so obvious that when he tries to simplify things, the message gets lost in translation. So after all that, I did a thorough analysis of the combo recoding samples and testing different configurations, so here are my recommended settings, how to handle the recorded footage in Premiere, FCP and Resolve, and then my conclusions:

My recommended settings

  • For external recordings in 4K-HQ and C-Log 3 with the Ninja V:
    • Enable 4K-HQ on the EOS R5.
    • Enable C-Log 3.
    • Use Rec.2020 color space because Cinema Gamut isn’t supported.
    • On the Ninja V, load the Canon provided BT2020_CanonLog3-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT and enable it to preview your image.
    • On the Ninja V, enable “Legalize” for exposure and WB, after that, leve it on if you use Adobe Premiere or FCP, turn it off if you use Resolve and then set the video/data levels to full in Resolve.
  • For external RAW recording with the Ninja V
    • Enable RAW trough HDMI
    • Select ProRes RAW codec on the Ninja V
    • Load the CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT and enable it to preview your image for exposure and WB.
  • For internal recordings in 4K-HQ and C-Log 3:
    • Enable 4K-HQ on the EOS R5
    • Enable C-Log 3
    • User Cinema Gamut color space
    • Record using around ⅓ to 1 stop to the right.
  • For internal RAW recordings
    • Disable C-Log and use the standard profile, is less nosy and all NLEs would interpret the RAW footage as C-Log 2 / Cinema Gamut

Dealing with the ESO R5 footage in Final Cut Pro

If you are thinking of editing EOS R5 internal RAW footage, you’ll need the Canon RAW Plugin 2.4 for Final Cut Pro, it is available for download in Canon’s support page.

Ninja V External recording using C-Log 3 in Rec.2020 with the “Legalize” toggle on

  1. Create a new project with standard settings.
  2. Drag your footage to your timeline.
  3. Select your footage and go to the “Info” panel.
  4. Select the “Extended” view on the Info panel.
  5. On the Info panel, click on the drop-down option called “Camera LUT”, and select the
  6. BT2020_CanonLog3-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT, if isn’t there already, add the Canon LUTs there by clicking on “Revel in Finder”, and copy the canon LUT files in the Folder, FCP automatically refresh and display LUTs in the folder.
  7. Switch to “Color & Effects” workspace by clicking on “Window” menu, “Workspaces”, “Color & Effects”.
  8. Adjust your footage as you want or add a custom Rec.709 LUT, I provide mine called LevelsAndSaturation.cube, to apply a custom Rec.709 LUT, find the “Custom LUT” effect, drag and drop it on the footage in the timeline, select the “Video Inspector”, and browse or add your custom Rec.709 LUT.
Create new project using standard settings.
Select the extended view of the footage in the Info panel
Select or add the Canon LUTs
Copy Canon LUTs to the FCP Camera LUTs
Select the Camera LUT
Switch to “Color & Effects” Workspace and grade your footage
Alternatively, use a custom Rec.709 LUT adding the “Custom LUT” filter.
Select or add your custom Rec.709 LUT
Copy your custom LUTs into FCP Custom LUTs folder
Select your custom LUT

Internal Canon RAW recording

Having installed the Canon RAW Plugin 2.4 for Final Cut Pro, steps are just like the previous example, using the same project:

  1. Drag your footage to your timeline.
  2. Select your footage and go to the “Info” panel.
  3. Select the “Extended” view on the Info panel.
  4. On the Info panel, click on the drop-down option called “Camera LUT”, and select the CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT.
  5. Switch to “Color & Effects” workspace.
  6. Adjust your footage as you want or add a custom Rec.709 LUT.
Apply the Canon C-Log 2 / Cinema Gamut Camera LUT
Grade your footage or apply a custom Rec.709 LUT

ProRes RAW external recordings

Exactly as the two previous examples but with a different LUT:

  1. Drag your footage to your timeline.
  2. Select your footage and go to the “Info” panel.
  3. Select the “Extended” view on the Info panel.
  4. On the Info panel, click on the drop-down option called “Camera LUT”, and select the CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT.
  5. Switch to “Color & Effects” workspace.
  6. Adjust your footage as you want or add a custom Rec.709 LUT.
Drag your footage to the timeline
Select the Camera LUT
Optionally, add a custom LUT by dragging the “Custom LUT” effect into your footage.
Select your custom LUT

Internal HEVC/H.265 C-Log 3 / Cinema Gamut recordings

Just like the four previous examples but with different LUT:

  • Drag your footage to your timeline.
  • Select your footage and go to the “Info” panel.
  • Select the “Extended” view on the Info panel.
  • On the Info panel, click on the drop-down option called “Camera LUT”, and select the CinemaGamut_CanonLog3-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT.
  • Switch to “Color & Effects” workspace.
  • Adjust your footage as you want or add a custom Rec.709 LUT.
Select the Camera LUT

Dealing with the ESO R5 footage in Adobe Premiere Pro

Adobe Premiere Pro steps are similar to Final Cut Pro, but I’ll NOT add the LUTs to Premiere because in combination with Media Encoder, both have issues sharing the LUTs.

Ninja V External recording using C-Log 3 in Rec.2020 with the “Legalize” toggle on

  1. Create a new project and switch to the “Color” workspace.
  2. Drag your footage to your project library.
  3. Create a new sequence from the clip imported.
  4. Select the footage, and clic on the “Lumetri Color” panel, then select the “Source” tab.
  5. On the “Lumetri Color” panel, “Source” tab, click in the drop down menu in “Look” or “Input LUT” (depending on the Premiere version), and select “Browse”.
  6. Browse and select the BT2020_CanonLog3-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT.
  7. Grade your footage as you want on the “Lumetri Color” panel, on the “Comp” tab, or load a custom Rec.709 LUT in the same tab, by clicking on the drop down menu in “Look” or “Input LUT” (depending on the Premiere version), and select “Browse”, then browse and select the LUT.
Switch to the “Color” Workspace
Drag the footage to the project library
Create a new sequence from the footage
Browse for the Camera LUT in the “Source” tab inside “Lumetri” panel
Select the camera LUT
Optionally, browse for a custom Rec.709 LUT in the “Comp” tab
Select the custom Rec.709 LUT

Internal Canon RAW recording

Just like in the previous example, but using the CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT, but make sure the Color Space of the clip is set to Cinema Gamut and the Gamma is set to Canon Log 2 on the “Effect Controls” panel, “Source” tab:

Make sure Cinema Gamut and Canon Log 2 is selected

ProRes RAW external recordings

Just like in the previous example, using the CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT, and making sure the Color Space of the ProRes RAW clip is set to Cinema Gamut / Canon Log 2 on the “Effect Controls” panel, “Source” tab:

Make sure Cinema Gamut/C-Log2 is selected

Internal HEVC/H.265 C-Log 3 / Cinema Gamut recordings

Just like in the first Adobe Premiere Pro Example, but selecting the CinemaGamut_CanonLog3-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT.

Dealing with the ESO R5 footage in DaVinci Resolve

Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve 17 is without a doubt, the best NLE for color correction and grading, but sadly, it doesn’t support Apple ProRes RAW, nevertheless, it is where I created the LevelsAndSaturation.cube LUT, so first, let’s load Canon provided LUTs and the custom LUT into Resolve’s LUT library.

Setting-up LUTs and the project

  1. Create a new project.
  2. Go to the “Color” space by clicking the “Color” icon at the bottom of the window.
  3. Click on the “LUTs” switch.
  4. Righ-click any LUT to open the contextual menu, and then clic on “Reveal in Finder”, this will open the location of the LUTs folder in Finder.
  5. Copy the Canon provided LUTs and your custom LUTs into the folder.
  6. Righ-click on the LUTs window background to open the contextual menu, and then click on “Refresh”, your LUTs will appear immediately.
In the “Color” workspace, select LUTs, right-click and “Revel in Finder”
Copy Canon provided LUTs and your own LUTs to the folder
Right-click on the LUTs library to show the contextual menu, and refresh

Now let’s setup our project resolution, color space and resizing options:

  1. Click on the gear located in the left-bottom corner of the screen.
  2. In the Project Settings window, in the “Master Settings” tab, set the resolution to 1920×1080, it is the recommended resolution to have a fast playback experience, you can change the resolution before exporting.
  3. In the “Color Management” tab, select “DaVinci YRGB” for Color science and “Rec.709 (Scene)” for Timeline color space.
  4. In the “Image Scaling” tab, “Input Scaling” area, select “Scale full frame with crop” to avoid the letterboxing produced by DCI footage.
Use Full HD resolution for faster playback
Select DaVinci YRGB Color science and Rec.709 Timeline color space
Enable “Scale full frame with crop”

Ninja V External recording using C-Log 3 in Rec.2020 with the “Legalize” toggle on

  1. On the “Edit” workspace, drag your footage to the timeline.
  2. Switch to the “Color” workspace, enable the “LUTs” panel, then, drag-and-drop the BT2020_CanonLog3-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT into the clip below the LUTs pannel; alternatively, you can right the clip and in the contextual menu, navigate to the LUT.
  3. Then, select a node and color grade your footage, or add a custom Rec.709 LUT by dragging and dropping the LUT to the node
Drag the footage to the timeline.
Drag-and-drop the LUT to the clip
Drag and drop a custom Rec.709 LUT to a node

Ninja V External recording using C-Log 3 in Rec.2020 WITHOUT the “Legalize” toggle on

Exactly as the previous example, but set the clip data levels to full by right-clicking on the clip, selecting the “Clip Attributes…” option in the contextual menu, and then, in the “Clip Attributes” window, switching to “Full”.

Right-click on the clip, and select “Clip Attributes”
Set the Data Levels to “Full”

Internal Canon RAW recording

Resolve automatically asumes the Canon RAW footage uses C-Log 2 with Cinema Gamut, so the steps are almost the same as the previous example, but applying the CinemaGamut_CanonLog2-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT.

Internal HEVC/H.265 C-Log 3 / Cinema Gamut recordings

The steps are almost the same as the first example, but applying the CinemaGamut_CanonLog3-to-BT709_WideDR_65_FF_Ver.2.0.cube LUT.

Some conclusions after the thorough analysis

  • HDR/LOG toggles modify the metadata of the recorded file, with the HDR/LOG enabled, with Canon as selected camera, and in all cases regardless of the Log version, choosing DCI-P3plus, Rec.709 or Cinema Gamut will tag the footage metadata as “BT.709” for color primaries and “BT.709” for matrix coefficients. Choosing BT.2020 will tag the footage metadata as “BT.2020” for color primaries and “BT.2020 non-constant” for matrix coefficients. Choosing DCI-P3 will tag the footage metadata as “DCI P3” for color primaries and “BT.709” for matrix coefficients. Again, regardless of the C-Log version, and in all cases, without including the video range and the “transfer characteristics” metadata, which it is included if the HDR/LOG toggle is off as “BT.709” with “BT.709” for color primaries and “BT.709” for matrix coefficients.
  • All EOS R5 internal recordings are saved in full range, the metadata inside each movie file contains this flag and is interpreted as full range in each NLE accordingly.
  • HDMI output of the EOS R5 is always in full range, regardless of the settings.
  • The Atomos Ninja V monitor displays the signal in normal/video range and in Rec.709 color space, regardless of the signal range or color space. This is quite important, specially while applying LUTs.
  • Considering that the EOS R5 HDMI signal is in full range, if you want to see how the image will look to use false color for exposure and/or want to use RGB Parade for white balance, you’ll need to set the Ninja V “HDR/LOG” toggle to “Off” and the “Legalize” option to “On”. And if your footage is in LOG, you’ll need to load the Canon LOG-to-Rec.709 LUT into the Ninja V accordingly, extra to the “Legalize” option enabled, but beware, this will change the video levels recorded, so it is recommended to turn off the “Legalize” toggle after setting the exposure and while balance, only if you use Resolve, I’ll go into more detail later.
  • Canon Cinema Gamut color space can only be used internally, it doesn’t work well trough HDMI, colors are shifted towards yellow, the reason behind this it could be found in that the HDMI standard only support up-to Rec.2020 and that the Canon Cinema Gamut is wrongly mapped trough Rec.2020.
  • If you don’t use Resolve but use Adobe Premiere Pro or Final Cut Pro, keep the “Legalize” toggle always on, if you use the best NLE out there, Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve 17, you can turn “Legalize” off after exposing and doing the white balance, Resolve allows to change the video/data levels, so you can set the recorded footage to full range.
  • Only Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve 17 has the availability to change the footage video levels, and if you didn’t enable the “Legalize” option in LOG recordings as it is recommended in the Atomos Ninja V user manual from Octobre 2021, in page 27, stating “For Log inputs, the conversion to LEGAL range should NOT be applied”; you can set the video/data levels to “Full” in order to make it work as it is an internal recording.
  • When recording RAW footage in ProRes RAW, the Atomos Ninja V behaves as all of us want and expect, monitoring with a LUT so we know how the result will be, and recording the signal as-is without LUTs and/or video level modifications. This is the expected behavior any enthusiasts wants while recording LOG, monitoring how the footage will look in the NLE but storing the full range and LOG format of the signal.
  • On the EOS R, enabling C-Log while recording RAW internally, produces more noise, without C-Log enabled, RAW footage look considerably less noisy, and in any NLE, it retains its ability to be interpreted as C-Log 2 / Cinema Gamut.
  • Cinema RAW Light is little bit more noisy.
  • Cinema RAW Development 2.6.1 doesn’t support Cinema RAW Light yet, Why?
  • After applying the LOG-to-Rec.709 to a LOG footage, the difference between the resulting image from a Rec.709 recording has a 20% less gain/luma.
  • Enabling “Crop mode” on DCI resolutions, produces a 1.6x HFOV crop factor and 1.7x diagonal crop factor, it uses a 22.5×11.85mm sensor area and uses 5120×2696 pixels.
  • The “Crop mode” utilizes an image sensor area of 5120x2696px, and on internal recording, it downsamples the 5K image to 4K-DCI, 80% of the original pixel dimensions; on external RAW it keeps the original resolution.
  • External RAW recordings do not care which color space is selected in the EOS R5, and in the case of enabling cropping, an HDMI 1.4 cable works just fine, more about it here.

Misconceptions in Gerald Undone and Atomos videos

So, the official Atomos video, totally misleading, and Gerald’s second video have some issues, in minute 3:33 he states that the monitoring options of HLG and PQ are ways to process the image already in the Ninja V, that isn’t true, it is mean for monitoring and if enable, for output trough HDMI, NOT for recording.

In his previous video, at 0:57, he states that the Ninja treats everything as legal, which isn’t exactly true, the Ninja displays everything as legal but records the signal as it is received, unless the “Legalize” toggle is enabled.

In minute 1:07 he states that the NLE software scales the video to fit the full level, this isn’t exactly true, Premiere works with a timeline that uses video/legal levels, it treats footage without video levels metadata as video/legal/limited range, it doesn’t scales the video range at all. It is a video using full levels without the metadata stating that, that get its levels outside of the legal values of the timeline, same happens with Final Cut Pro and Resolve, but the later, has the option to change the video levels. If the video has the metadata indicating it is recorded in full range, then the NLE scales down the full range to fit the video levels of the timeline.

On minute 1:29 he states that most camera profiles use legal range, and that LOG recordings use full range, this isn’t the case for the EOS R and R5, where the HDMI always output full range video, regardless of the “camera profile” or “LOG” setting.

On minute 1:47 he states that when LOG is recorded internally, the camera either writes the metadata to treat the footage as full range, or the NLE just knows to treat the footage as full because of the way the software was programed, this is totally misleading; in the case of the EOS R5 (verified using Mediainfo), the camera writes the metadata stating that the file uses full range, regardless if LOG is enabled, and it is because of this metadata that the NLE knows it has to squeeze the full range video in a limited level timeline, or leave it as-is in a full range timeline, it is the Atomos Ninja V that produces footage that lacks the right file metadata about the video levels that makes the software asume the file use video levels.

On minute 1:28 he states that most camera profiles are based on legal range, and in minute 3:31 he states that LUTs (and transforms like ACES) will not be mapped 100% correctly because they were built on full range, in both cases he is partially wrong, Canon provided LUTs are designed for video levels, because most NLEs have a timeline in video level, until recently Final Cut enable HDR mode, but Adobe Premiere mostly works in video levels, also, the Ninja V expects any LUT it loads to be designed for video levels, so NO, most LUTs are designed for video levels, Canon provided LUTs are designed for video levels; ACES is another story.

How Atomos could fix the Ninja V(+)

Maybe most professionals already knew what to expect from Atomos Ninja V, but most enthusiast were mislead into believing that the monitor displayed the signal as it was displayed in the EOS R and R5 screen, and to correctly preview LOG footage, just like the EOS R and R5 have the “View Assist” option, we loaded a LUT into the monitor, but before Gerald Undone video, there wasn’t any information about video levels. Yes, the Atomos team added a workaround with the “Legalize” toggle, but…

…What if you want to preview your image in legal range with a LOG-to-Rec.709 LUT applied and record the signal in full range as it is recommended in the Atomos User Manual from October 2021?

I think there should be a toggle for “Legalize” only in monitor, and one toggle to “Legalize” the recorded signal, two separate toggles, and I don’t know if a firmware upgrade could do that, I hope it can be done, and that more users appeal for this to Atomos, but for that, they have to know about the issue.

HDR Toggles and its effect in file metadata

HDMI and color spaces, no Canon Cinema Gamut

Cinema Gamut in comparison to other color spaces
HDMI doesn’t support Canon Cinema Gamut

Sample files settings and download links

For anyone to try this guide, all the recorded footage is available for download here, it was recored using the EOS R5 with the Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM using the EF-to-RF Canon Adapter, connected to an Atomos Ninja V using an HDMI 1.4 cable. Camera settings were 50mm, f/1.8, ISO 800, 4400k, also, here are the file specs, :

4 thoughts on “EOS R5 + Atomos Ninja V… a thorough analysis, and how to set-up

  1. Hi there ! Still struggling with my settings of my R5..
    At the end of your post you mention that the HDMI 1.4 does not support Cinema Gamut, but does it really support BT2020 ?
    Also, what the benefit to choose BT2020 color space on the R5 if i work on rec709 timeline ?
    I always need to put a conversion lut or CST on davinci to convert 2020 to 709. So are we still have more color informations to work with by select bt2020 on color space setting ?

    Thank your for the nice works here !

    1. -At the end of your post you mention that the HDMI 1.4 does not support Cinema Gamut, but does it really support BT2020?

      Ok, I made a test with the HDMI 1.4 cable and with an HDMI 2.1 cable, both produce exactly the same results and the Canon Rec.2020 LUT work as expected, this is the HDMI 2.1 cable I used:
      https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08L6C7BDC/

      -what the benefit to choose BT2020 color space on the R5 if i work on rec709 timeline?

      As it is shown in the color space graph, Rec/BT.2020 is a color space that is bigger than traditional BT/Rec.709/sRGB, it is ideal for LOG footage because it has more latitude, so you can have more information to work with, similar to RAW photos, 14bit is better than 12bit RAW photos.

      -I always need to put a conversion lut or CST on davinci to convert 2020 to 709. So are we still have more color informations to work with by select bt2020 on color space setting?

      Yes, you can see how much color Rec.2020 provide, you can use a LUT or do a LOG to Rec.709 conversion by hand, or use a Color Transform in Resolve. The deal with LOG is that light is captured In a logarithmic way instead of linear, it is the sweet spot between RAW video and Rec.709 video, you don’t have huge RAW files but still can grade the footage.

      Take a look at this videos on those topics, they explain quite well this topics, highly recommended:

      Color and video
      https://youtu.be/FTKP0Y9MVus

      Add VFX to Cinematic RAW and LOG Footage
      https://youtu.be/aJF2sAjRsy0
      https://youtu.be/LssHxDCM7H4

      Rafael Ludwig, three videos showing how to grade C-Log to Rec.709 using Final Cut Pro, Premiere and DaVinci Resolve, great videos:
      https://youtu.be/UYWFOimYFGA
      https://youtu.be/8lTUqg9uHRg
      https://youtu.be/NkZ2c9xPYoA

      Now, What is the issue you are experiencing?

      1. Thanks for your reply.
        I try to switch to BT709 cause using BT2020 on a 709 Timeline in Davinci is like a multiply of each tools. Here an exemple : when i balance my shot, if i put +100 to yellow on 2020 shot is like you put +300 on the 709 one. Kind of hard to make a little change in BT2020, always to put number never use mouse. I understand the fact that we have more room color before the CST node but using other nodes before the CST on BT2020 shot is way too strong on a REC709 Timeline but not on DCI or 2020 timeline.

        For now i choose this settings : CLOG 1 (3 is too noisy for my rolloff shadow style) with 709 color space.
        Still waiting for someone to convince me CLOG3 is way better for one stop and noisy shadow, and convince me about BT2020 cause even if i grade with Waqas Qazi methode, the moves are way too strong (Temp/color separation..etc)

        1. -“I try to switch to BT709 cause using BT2020 on a 709 Timeline in Davinci is like a multiply of each tools.”
          If you have the right LUT or Color Space Transform, there should not be any problem, and with Rec.2020 there is more room for corrections.

          -“when i balance my shot, if i put +100 to yellow on 2020 shot is like you put +300 on the 709 one. Kind of hard to make a little change in BT2020, always to put number never use mouse.”

          Exactly, because there is more room to play with.

          -“For now i choose this settings : CLOG 1 (3 is too noisy for my rolloff shadow style)”
          It depends how you expose your shoot, that is why I use an external monitor matching the settings with the camera, with the respective LUT and over that, I use false color, here is an excellent tutorial on how to expose the C70:
          https://youtu.be/zCl7B-xyRfQ

          For C-Log 3 without an external monitor, I expose from ⅓ to 1 stop to the right (extra exposure) and then I pull the shadows back to black if needed.

          “-Still waiting for someone to convince me CLOG3 is way better for one stop and noisy shadow”
          C-Log has more latitude for color grading and correction in post, there is no question about it, but it depends on how you expose your shoots.

          -“and convince me about BT2020 cause even if i grade with Waqas Qazi methode, the moves are way too strong (Temp/color separation..etc)”

          If you record internally, the easiest way is to record HEVC/H.265/C-Log3/Cinema Gamut and in DaVinci Resolve, use Wide Gamut timeline with a Rec.709/SDR output, selecting the right color space for the clips, that way you wouldn’t need any LUT or color space transform. If you record externally with the Ninja V, C-Log 3 with Rec.2020, Legalize toggle enable and with the Rec.2020/C-Log 3 to Rec.709 LUT loaded in order to see the exposure with false colors, if you record using the Legalize toggle on, just importing the footage to Resolve, and if you turn the Legalize toggle off, setting the range/levels of the clips to full, and in a Rec.709 timeline, applying the Canon provided Rec.2020/C-Log 3 LUT.

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